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Jan 10, 2018, 4:00 pm
#16
Boten
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Tokyo
Programs: BA Gold, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 195
I had this recently landing in Beijing. Only it wasn't fog but pollution and visibility was ridiculously poor.
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Jan 10, 2018, 4:07 pm
#17
LTN Phobia
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: Battleaxe Alliance
Posts: 22,130
Originally Posted by Boten
I had this recently landing in Beijing. Only it wasn't fog but pollution and visibility was ridiculously poor.
I'd have preferred to be diverted and literally dumped elsewhere (preferably a long way away with better air) in that case, so that I don't have to breathe the air in Beijing 
corporate-wage-slave and Boten like this.
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Jan 10, 2018, 4:28 pm
#18
South London Bon Viveur
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold; FB Silver; SPG; IHG Gold
Posts: 3,052
On the two CAT3 auto lands I have had on BA (one into LHR from GVA and the other into VIE) we were also asked to switch off all electronics, so this definitely seems to be an SOP. On both occasions there was a very detailed and clear explanation from flight deck/cc and, from what I can recall, everyone complied and there were no issues at all. I found them both fascinating, especially the VIE approach because it was dark and the airfield there is surrounded by fields so there are hardly any lights to see on approach- you're just "waiting for impact" which I found rather exciting. And the auto pilot disconnect buzzer sound only came only sounded once we had touched down and braked. Amazing stuff.
NWIFlyer and corporate-wage-slave like this.
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Jan 10, 2018, 4:33 pm
#19
bd95
Join Date: Nov 2012
Programs: BA Silver, VS Silver
Posts: 819
Originally Posted by jmd
In answer to your other question as to why BHD often closes in bad weather, my recollection is that BHD only has category I ILS, which generally requires runway visual range (I.e minimum horizontal visibility) of 550m for landing. BFS has category III ILS which allows for full autoland in near zero visibility. Other more knowledgeable posters may also be able to shed light on whether the particular constraints for flight paths at BHD (mainly to minimise noise) also have an impact on low visibility operations.
AFAIK the flight paths at BHD don't pose any other restrictions over and above the CAT I ILS. In the past there was ILS only on 22 and not on 04 which could provide for occasional problems when visibility was poor in easterly winds >5knots, which is unusual in Belfast, but they have now ILS on both directions. The only other main restriction is the length of runway at 6001ft, and the fact that the orientation at 04/22 often experiences vicious northwesterly cross winds. The noise restriction for being in a built up area is a curfew with no planned ops before 0630 or after 2130 and no ops whatsoever after 2359. The outbound flight path off 04 has a quick left turn to follow the centre-line of the Lough, and off 22 it's a straight line out with no turns until a certain height, but these don't really affect ops in fog.
The odd thing about BHD vs BFS is that there can be sea fog affecting BHD (on Belfast Lough) but not BFS (up on the Antrim plateau), and often the reverse with fog on the plateau but Belfast City in glorious sunshine. I'd guess that there are more fog days up at BFS but being a main diversion airfield for the N Atlantic and an RAF base they have full ILS and are pretty much an all-weather field. Nice long runways x2 too to take emergency landings from BHD too! Just a pity Belfast International is not actually in or convenient to much of Belfast!
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Jan 10, 2018, 4:39 pm
#20
wingtip428
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 71
Originally Posted by memesweeper
I suppose I posted as I am staggered that my phone being on or off is going to make the slightest difference to an instrument landing.
Personal, unofficial opinion - it wont
However - there is a tiny theoretical risk of interference, especially with multiple PEDs involved or if they are faulty/damaged. As stated by other posters, BA standard operating procedure is to have everything turned off for low visibility operations. We are encouraged to mention this in the flight crew PA, but this may also be delegated to the senior cabin crew member (contrary to popular belief, autolands are a bit of a pain and our workload is usually high). The list of things that need to be set up and briefed is much longer than for a manual landing - and while the autoland system is usually accurate and reliable, we always have to be poised to take over if needed.
One example of an autoland going wrong: Incident: Singapore B773 at Munich on Nov 3rd 2011, runway excursion
(admittedly that interference was caused by another aircraft overflying the localiser antenna, and as far as I know had nothing to do with memesweepers phone... 
)
Some more background reading here: https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/...s)_on_Aircraft
orbitmic likes this.
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Jan 10, 2018, 5:12 pm
#21
fartoomanyusers
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, UK
Programs: bmi DC, BAEC
Posts: 1,179
Originally Posted by memesweeper
She then patrolled the front half of the plane making sure we really did turn off our phones and iPods and remove our headphones. the lady in front of me briefly complied... then turned her iPad back on. Not for long! Our asiduous CSM then popped over to tell her to turn it off.
i had the opposite experience on a GLA-LGW flight recently ... before landing there was the usual "dimming lights for landing in the hours of darkness" ... the lights went out ... but a couple of minutes later they came back on again ... and stayed on for landing !
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Jan 10, 2018, 5:24 pm
#22
phoneticduck
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: BHD
Programs: BAEC Gold, Radisson VIP, Hertz Gold, Accor Plat
Posts: 171
Originally Posted by bd95
Just a pity Belfast International is not actually in or convenient to much of Belfast!
Depends if you live in or are destined for Belfast city centre. BHD is a nightmare to get at/away from in rush hour if you are coming at it in the wrong direction.
BFS is actually closer to where it claims to be than many international airports, but the lack of a rail link to anywhere is a big minus.
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Jan 10, 2018, 5:35 pm
#23
bd95
Join Date: Nov 2012
Programs: BA Silver, VS Silver
Posts: 819
Originally Posted by phoneticduck
Depends if you live in or are destined for Belfast city centre. BHD is a nightmare to get at/away from in rush hour if you are coming at it in the wrong direction.
BFS is actually closer to where it claims to be than many international airports, but the lack of a rail link to anywhere is a big minus.
True. BFS is 14 miles from Belfast. BHD is great for city centre or South / East Belfast. BFS is more accessible for a swathe of north and west belfast and central areas of Northern Ireland. But bear in mind that for me in Belfast it takes about an hour to get to BFS and about 1h30ish to get to DUB with a much wider range of routes (and 10-20min to BHD).
The greatest travesty is that both BHD and BFS have railway lines running close to their perimeters but neither have stations serving the airport, which must be some great error (same for DUB)!
Jan 10, 2018, 6:09 pm
#24
G-BUSI
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Glasgow
Programs: BA Executive Club
Posts: 448
Originally Posted by memesweeper
So, one of the BHD flights from LHR was diverted to BFS tonight, due to fog. And it was foggy, no doubt.
I have no clue why BHD closes in bad weather... but lets ignore that for a moment.
Shortly before the 10mins to landing call, our senior cabin crew instructs all of us to stow tray tables, pack up laptops and turn off handheld electronic devices.
She then patrolled the front half of the plane making sure we really did turn off our phones and iPods and remove our headphones. the lady in front of me briefly complied... then turned her iPad back on. Not for long! Our asiduous CSM then popped over to tell her to turn it off. The reason? Its really foggy tonight.
She the occupied the jump seat, spotted three folks at the back with headphones on and paged the rear crew to have a word with them too.
its really foggy tonight. Ill just leave that right here.
Absolutely not trying to be smart, controversial or inflammatory here, but if a cabin crew say something out of the ordinary I tend to comply as I consider that they have a far better understanding of what is actually going on.
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Jan 10, 2018, 10:56 pm
#25
simons1
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
Originally Posted by G-BUSI
Absolutely not trying to be smart, controversial or inflammatory here, but if a cabin crew say something out of the ordinary I tend to comply as I consider that they have a far better understanding of what is actually going on.
You really think they have "understanding" or are just making the announcement on Captain's instructions?
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Jan 10, 2018, 11:00 pm
#26
1010101
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,797
Originally Posted by wingtip428
Personal, unofficial opinion - it won’t
Official opinion, it might.
The Americans keep a log of such things, there's a small sample here but even in that there are some occasions where interference has caused issues. When you can't see anything even a hissing in your earphones could be fatal.
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Jan 10, 2018, 11:35 pm
#27
Nuster
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sin, HKG
Programs: SQ, BA CCR GGL
Posts: 626
Originally Posted by 1010101
Official opinion, it might.
The Americans keep a log of such things, there's a small sample here but even in that there are some occasions where interference has caused issues. When you can't see anything even a hissing in your earphones could be fatal.
'whilst the cabin crew's instructions should be followed, I cannot help remembering the 15 years of take off and landing, everything off protocols, we all endured when suddenly it was not a risk any more. This in my view will be the same
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Jan 10, 2018, 11:44 pm
#28
1010101
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,797
Originally Posted by Nuster
'whilst the cabin crew's instructions should be followed, I cannot help remembering the 15 years of take off and landing, everything off protocols, we all endured when suddenly it was not a risk any more. This in my view will be the same
Not enough of a risk any more. Electronics haven't all of a sudden become completely safe, authorities have just decided the risk they pose no longer outweighs the inconvenience of banning them.
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Jan 10, 2018, 11:51 pm
#29
Nuster
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sin, HKG
Programs: SQ, BA CCR GGL
Posts: 626
Originally Posted by 1010101
Not enough of a risk any more. Electronics haven't all of a sudden become completely safe, authorities have just decided the risk they pose no longer outweighs the inconvenience of banning them.
same risk now as for 15 years? But the hassle just isn't worth it???? Or was the risk reassessed in the light of the empirical evidence over all that time?I cannot believe the FAA and CAA woke up one day and said "it's still a risk not having them turned off but it's really too much trouble to enforce it".
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Jan 11, 2018, 12:06 am
#30
memesweeper
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: South East England
Programs: Status with BA Exec Club; KrisFlyer; Hilton Honors; IHG One; Marriott Bonvoy
Posts: 543
Originally Posted by phoneticduck
BFS is actually closer to where it claims to be than many international airports, but the lack of a rail link to anywhere is a big minus.
... and the bus that connects to the city centre is expensive, slow, infrequent and uncomfortable.
If you fly to DUB and then head for Belfast theres a nice comfy coach with WiFi available to take you. It takes longer of course but it costs about the same as the BFS link.
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